Cheating VII: Time Warp Infidelity – Sex After or Before the Relationship?

Can we cheat on someone we’re no longer with, or Before we met them? Perhaps you thought you’d be off the hook after it’s over? Not so fast

For those of you just joining in, I’ll reiterate that I am not trying to promote cheating. In fact, I think it is wrong; however, I’ve done it – and many others seem to do it, so i figure it’s a relevant, if not interesting aspect of relationships to discuss and try to gain a better understanding of. If it isn’t blatantly obvious, I have no marriage counseling credentials. I share data from the field which hopefully you’ll find amusing –  bonus if applicable.

I was thinking back on something that happened a number of years ago after one of my more serious relationships had ended. About four months after we broke up, I had a spontaneous one time hookup with a friend of the person I’d broken up with. Not one of her closest friends – but a good one.

Is it possible to cheat on someone you’re no longer with? Before you dismiss the possibility, let me tell you what happened.

When the hookup occurred, my ex had already started dating someone else. I’d hung out with my ex’s friend Liz and her husband many times during the previous three years. I always liked Liz – as a person, and she seemed fond of me. She was a creative, hippie, laid back type – appreciated my art. She was also about eight years older than I, same as my ex.

I ran into Liz mid afternoon at a Patrick Malloy’s on Pier Avenue in Hermosa Beach.

patrick-malloys-outside

I guess I had the day off from my job at the time. I ended up at the beach doing some day drinking. I don’t remember why, but Liz was also doing some solo day drinking – living by the beach, one didn’t need much of a reason to do such things.

I walked into the bar and there was Liz – cool to run into her. We were both already buzzed, and downed several stiff drinks together at the bar. It turned out Liz and her husband were in the middle of a separation. (we were about the only two customers in the bar – sitting right at the bar shown below – half way down.)

patrick-malloyes-inside-bar

Liz was forward with me and I don’t remember showing any resistance. After about an hour and a half, we walked to my place a couple blocks away and had inclusive sex. And, when I say inclusive, I’m not talking about inviting minorities to join us! We covered a range of sexual activities, let’s put it that way.

So, did I cheat on my ex, or was it fair play given that my ex had started dating someone else?  Would it have been better if it happened a year or two later and not so soon after our break up? Perhaps a quick, standard bang would have not been as bad? Does it matter that the friend was more the instigator? (75/25 her to me probably)  Does it make it any less awful of me, that I passed on a second round when Liz called me a few weeks later?


On the other end of the temporal spectrum, there are some who consider it cheating to sleep with someone before one meets their spouse..

First, I was taught that if a husband and wife had sex with other people before marrying, they had, in effect, already cheated on each other. And if you know your spouse has cheated on you in the past, how can you know that they won’t cheat on you in the future?

Second, I was taught that if you and your spouse had had sex with each other before you got married, you also wouldn’t be able to trust each other. Why? Because you would forever know that your spouse didn’t respect and love you enough to wait until marriage to have sex with you, and also that your spouse wasn’t able to keep from committing sexual sin.

(These quotes found on a discussion you can find here)

Most would probably find such an expectation a bit extreme, but are there no limits? If your spouse had sex with half the people you know, with half your town, or chose to engage in extreme sexual activity prior to meeting you, would that be a betrayal of sorts? Should they have put forth some amount of restraint, in respect for their future spouse – knowing they’d probably get married some day?

What are your thoughts? As always, I’d love to hear about your experiences and your thoughts on the subject.


Cheating Series:

Cheating: Issues, Questions & Implications of shifting attitudes towards marital infidelity.

Cheating Part II: How much flirtation is healthy and when does it become infidelity?

Cheating III: Sex in Head, Mental Infidelity

Cheating IV: Anatomy of Infidelity

Cheating Part V: Loopholes, Free Zones and Grey Areas.

Cheating VII: Time Warp Infidelity – Sex After or Before the Relationship?

Cheating 7: When You Stumble Upon Much Better Sex Outside Your Relationship

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Pin The Tale On The Scapegoat

I believe this is the first post from another blogger – that I’ve ever re-posted on my blog. Nikole’s post was simply too brilliant and meaningful not to share.

“And so, in conclusion, if the end goal, the winning prize, is love, I am willing to carry that cross as far as I have to.”

Source: Pin The Tale On The Scapegoat

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Cheating Part II: How much flirtation is healthy and when does it become infidelity?

This is Part Two of a multi-part look at infidelity. Part One of this series asked some questions about the morality of cheating, and whether it is relative to the attitudes of the participants. Click here to read Part One.

Here in Part Two, we’ll look at a few real life situations that are what you might call “fuzzy infidelity.” How do we define the line between flirtation and interaction that qualifies as cheating, or, as wrong? Is it okay, or healthy, to cross the line a bit? How far? Where do you draw your line and have you crossed it? Please share your thoughts and stories in comments to further the discussion.

Much of the stories we hear about marital infidelity involve clear sexual interaction; with these, while opinions may differ about whether the interaction was right or wrong, there’s little ambiguity about the fact that “cheating” has occurred. But, in real life, we have situations that aren’t necessarily innocent, but do not involve any sexual acts – or, perhaps, no sexual interaction at all. I’d love to here about any such situations you’ve encountered. Here are a couple anecdotes from my own life: would they qualify as flirtation, or cheating? Were they harmless and healthy, or deceptive and wrong?

One of these “fuzzy” type situations happened with a friend’s fiancee, Lisa. The incident happened one night as a result of a spontaneous Truth or Dare game that started up between a group of close friends at a Fourth of July party. You can read the entire story of that night in my recently published book “Dare.” ~ Available now on Amazon

The incident with Lisa didn’t involve any sexual activity, and we were actually miles apart when the “questionable” part occurred. Before leaving the party with her fiancee, for her last turn in the Truth or Dare game, Lisa had dared me to go in the bathroom and take a nude mirror-shot selfie and text the pic to her and the other people playing. The dare stipulated that I be erect when I took the pic. As I walked off to do the dare Lisa mentioned something about, “It has to be a good, clear photo, bonus for sending a couple…”

I sent each person the photo individually. Then I sent two more to Lisa, close-ups that I had taken while I was still sitting on the toilet “preparing” – one flaccid and one of my hard dick. I lied and texted her that I couldn’t remember if she had said to send her a few. Lisa made no mention of the two extra photos she received – thank God.

If a line was crossed, it was probably about a half hour after she left, when I received a text message from Lisa. The following short conversation occurred:

Lisa: Hey, thanks for the xtra pics. U send those to others or just me?
Me: Just you. Too much?
Lisa: Would I be a horrible person if I kept them?
Me: Probably – lol.
Lisa: I think I will if u don’t mind?
Me: Go for it.
Lisa: I was thinking that perhaps we can keep it between us, the xtra ones you sent?
Me: Okay.
Lisa: And Duncan…
Me: Yes?
Lisa: I like them.
Me: I’m glad. You’re welcome to use them for masturbating… Lol, totally kidding.
Lisa: So I can’t?
Me: You would?
Lisa: I might.
Me: =0

And that was it. Flirtation? Infidelity? Horribly wrong behavior? What do you think?

For those that think this was wrong of Lisa or me, would you consider it “cheating,” or wrong for other reasons? Was I the first to do wrong by sending those extra pics? Was it the secretiveness when she asked me to keep it between us? Or, perhaps it became wrong when she continued even after I answered her that she would “probably” be a horrible person if she kept them? Or, did it cross the line when it turned sexual with her saying she might use the photos?

How about pure mental infidelity, is that a thing? If she masturbates looking at the pics or thinking of me – her soon-to-be-husband’s friend – is that cheating? How about if I get off on the thought of her keeping and looking at the pics of me, am I betraying my friendship?

Would the context of the incident, where lots of shocking behavior from all of us had already occurred that night, excuse our behavior to some extent?

Right or wrong, I haven’t experienced any negative repercussions do to the incident and as far as I know there’ve been none between Lisa and Sean – who were married two weeks after this happened. I’m dying to know what became of the photos, but haven’t dared ask. I still remember seeing Lisa’s amazing tits that night – no photo necessary. She actually has seen my genitals in person since, but that’s a whole ‘nother story – takes place in Volume II of the Sinner Saint Diary series actually.

Is it ever cheating if one merely exposes their body without their spouse’s knowledge? Or, does the exposure have to accompany some kind of sexual interaction – even if it’s on video or over the phone? I’ve seen someone expose themselves numerous times without their husbands around. A few years ago two co-workers stopped by my house, one married and the other separated. After a drink or two,  we got talking about boob jobs. The separated co-worker volunteered into evidence her own boob job, and then my boss – the happily married one of the group, took her shirt and bra off, and sat topless for a spell, so we could asses whether or not she needed a boob job. Unless a woman was planning a  career as a Dolly Parton impersonator, it would be ridiculous to change such perfect breasts: did she just want to show her tits?

The most extreme exposure story, which is told in the “Campfire Talk” SSD story to be published, was when a friend took off all her clothes in front of a group of us camping, after her boyfriend got upset about her wanting to go skinny dipping with the rest of us. We ended up going swimming without her, while she fought with her boyfriend. By the time we returned, her boyfriend had left the campsite and driven home – back to Los Angeles which was about a hundred miles away. As as twenty of us warmed up around the fire,  our friend made sure there was nothing of her we didn’t see.

Here’s a link to next the next post in series:


If you enjoy true accounts like this – of scandal, infidelity and testing of boundaries, I think you’ll love experiencing the scandalous saga among friends that takes place in the recent inaugural SSD publication, “Dare” available now on Amazon – click here for free preview.


Cheating Series:

Cheating: Issues, Questions & Implications of shifting attitudes towards marital infidelity.

Cheating Part II: How much flirtation is healthy and when does it become infidelity?

Cheating III: Sex in Head, Mental Infidelity

Cheating IV: Anatomy of Infidelity

Cheating Part V: Loopholes, Free Zones and Grey Areas.

Cheating VII: Time Warp Infidelity – Sex After or Before the Relationship?

Cheating 7: When You Stumble Upon Much Better Sex Outside Your Relationship


And now about you:

Responses will be shared anonymous

Nineteen Things I’ve Learned About It.

1. If it feels good to do – somebody does it.

2. If they’ve been doing it and break a promise not to do it again – they’ll never stop.

3. If they accuse you of doing it, and you’ve never done it, they’re the ones doing it.

4. If you have to lie about it, you probably shouldn’t be doing it.

5. If both of you do it – you’ll do it more often.

6. The more eager you are for them to be doing it, the less they’ll want to.

7. If you resist doing it -they’ll want you to do it even more.

8. If you resist too much, they’ll find another to do it, or do it themselves.

9. If you each do it and never talk about it, then you both know the other is doing it.

10. If they say they didn’t do it, and you didn’t ask if they did, they’re doing it.

11. If a lot are doing it, and nobody’s talking about it -it’s probably really F??k?ng good.

12. If they tell you it’s really good, but they’re not doing it – probably really F??k?ng bad.

13. If doing it is bad for you, it probably feels good to do.

14. If your mother wants you to do it, how good can it feel?

15. If your mother forbids you from doing it – she hasn’t done it.

16. If your mother suggests you don’t do it – she’s tried it.

17. If your mother pretends not to know you’re doing it – she still does it.

18. If you make them stop doing it, they’ll never let you do it.

19. If doing it worked once, it will work again

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